Green is good, except when it's not
You have to love the irony of life in Oshkosh these days.
I write this as a backhoe and dump truck are starting to work their way through the neighborhood, tearing up grass to be replaced with heat-trapping, impermeable concrete.
The River Mill Road sidewalk work began in earnest yesterday, the same day that Frank Tower and Tony Palmeri were touting their devotion to the environment in the context of a new city policy that enshrines environmentally correct practices.
Don't you just love this quote from Palmeri:
Councilor Tony Palmeri said the document forces the government to think of the environmental consequences of public policy.
"It will force us to take on green policies that will not only save money but are also popular with citizens," he said.
It makes you wonder what the words "green policies," "save money" and "popular with citizens" mean to him.
It's convenient for politicians to have these pseudo-events that they can use to divert attention from their actual actions.
posted by Miles Maguire at 8:25 AM
65 Comments:
Thanks to the city council for making it possible to stay out of the street in this neighborhood!
Making the WIOWASH trail more accessible to the people of Oshkosh certainly seems green-friendly to me!!
Yes, but how does this make the trail more accessible?
The public has always owned the right-of-way where the grass is being torn up.
It has always been available for use. The sidewalk doesn't change that.
Is Tony going to have the city paint the sidewalks green maybe?
The contradictions in that man are more than I can stand...
I appreciate the opportunity to use a safe sidewalk as I make my way to the WIOWASH trail. Thank you council for keeping the pedistrians safe.
Did you shovel your public right of way in the winter? I didn't think so. The side walks are a great idea and an asset to the trail.
Miles is joking, right?
He knows that we have all been trained to stay off the neighbor's lawn. Without sidewalks, this means you need to be in the street.
On top of that, he seems not to have noticed that half the neighbors put their mailboxes, trees, etc. right in the middle of the public right-of-way.
Oh course I shoveled the right-of-way. It cuts across my driveway.
The sidewalks will have no effect on the usage of the trail.
But they will have effects.
"We've been trained...?"
Like puppies?
Miles:
And speaking of Green policies, I always enjoy the contradiction of students on campus with Green Party pins on back backs or Green stickers on their cars who are smoking. It is even better when I see Green stickers on SUV's. Way to go, who knew that cigarettes and 4x4's were environmentally friendly!
I live on Ohio Street, just north of South Park. The road pavement is in excellent condition. Ohio Street will be widened for "safety" and "infrastructure" reasons.
Widened how much you ask? About a foot on both sides.
Yah. Almost a foot on either side. And gues who's responsible for the sidewalk payment and re-building the corner (not to mention the inconvenience)-- we are.
If it's gotta be, it's gotta be.
We're not whining or complaining about it. Wish you'd stop too.
p.s. Sidewalks are green-friendly.
Bike lanes are too.
-McTwist
Who says that it's gotta be?
Speaking of bike lanes, that's what the neighborhood requested.
Citizens should be encouraged to speak out (or "whine," if you prefer). This is a democracy.
The country was built on the idea that the people should have a say.
The wealthy entitled group of river mills whiners just don't get it. We average folks in Oshkosh know the truth, you guys are used to getting your own way and this time you didn't. Furthermore you thought you bought and paid for our new Mayor, and he showed you he isn't your water carrier/lap-dog. Frank is a great Mayor and the sidewalks are a great addition to a wonderful neighborhood. Quit your whining and enjoy them. Take a stroll and meet your neighbors.
Bought and paid for with what? A $25, $50, or even $100 donation??? You people are out of your simple, yet contradictory minds. McTwist? No!! McTwisted is more fitting for your line of "rationale."
Miles, you are so right about those who continue to say River Mill residents are "whining."
If someone complains about city employee benefits because they don't have such a good deal at their union job, or because they say "we and others can't afford it," that's believed to be good government: democracy in action, they shout...But when others such as yourself, your neighbors, or the Miller's Bay people, speak out about an issue offensive to them and one believed to have been handled poorly, suddenly it's considered by these same "do-gooders" to be nothing more than people whining or complaining about NIMBY issues...They have no legitimate basis for their arguments, other than in their mind they're right when it's their fight, but others aren't entitled to the same...In their minds you shouldn't raise the issue in the first place...These people are nothing but hypocrites and include a couple of council members leading the pack, including a mayor wannabe.
The city is moving in the right direction. New sidewalks on river mill. New City Manager. New City Attorney. More new Department heads in the future. New attitude dealing with the entitled mentality of the city employees. A bright new future is ahead.
Forgive me. I should have said harping, not whining.
And yes, I agree with you Miles. It is what democracy is about.
The comment I don't understand is the one regarding donations. What is that all about?
"Bought and paid for with what? A $25, $50, or even $100 donation??? You people are out of your simple, yet contradictory minds."
????
The homeowners are responsible for the cost of installing the sidewalks. However, the neighborhood would gladly accept donations if you wish to contribute to the Ohio Street project. :)
If the city really wants your neighborhood to be safer, ask them to install a bike lane too.
"The city is moving in the right direction."
What is the evidence for that?
We DON'T have a new city manager, and we DON'T have a new city attorney.
We have a couple of vacancies, and a Council that is having trouble hitting its marks.
I think we're going backwards.
The donation comment referred back to accusations that River Mill residents thought they had a mayor who was bought and paid for. I thought the conversation was really pretty easy to follow.
As for who bears the cost of sidewalk installation, it's not just homeowners. There was a oost to the city of a few thousand dollars. As a taxpayer I believe this was money foolishly spent by those council people who approved the sidewalks. There are better uses for our money, especially to make other, more hazardous areas safer. This neighborhood should have been the least of anyone's worries.
Miles, Are you really that dumb?
You need to get rid of the dead wood first.
You're beginning to sound like you should reside at the Town Motel rather than on River Mill!
Anonymous 10:34 said "If the city really wants your neighborhood to be safer, ask them to install a bike lane too."
If the city is really interested in safety it would have:
(1) focused their sidewalk efforts in more dangerous parts of town that to this day lack sidewalk and Esslinger and his minions haven't uttered a word about. How's that for hypocrisy.
And (2) they would automatically have installed a bike lane and not need someone else to suggest it. However in this case a bike lane was requested and the city council rejected the concept. More hypocrisy from people who want to be forward-thinking but have their heads turned around, thus we keep doing things backwards.
Yeah, I am that dumb. I happen to think that you don't pull the trigger until you know what you are shooting at.
Was Wollangk really the problem, or was it the rollover Council, or was it the lack of accountability at the department head level?
DO you really think that changing a couple of faces will solve the problem if the problem is really the form/structure of government?
You need to think such things through first, before you start wielding the ax.
If we (the voters) decided, for example, to change the structure of government, we could have let that process go forward while Wollangk's contract ran its course. In 18 months, we'd have new faces, a new form of government AND the cash we are paying instead in severance.
If we keep being so smart, maybe we'll all be living at the Town Motel.
You're exactly right Miles. Not only that but others before me have made the point that councils along the way have been to blame also. They didn't ever give the right direction to the city manager.
As for a change in government, maybe we need district representation like we have in all other layers of government. But to switch to a mayoral form with the people we have in this cty will not work. It works in other places because the people aren't so childish and petty, nor are some so control happy.
Paul Esslinger told the ONW that with the current form people don't know who's in charge. It's simple: the city council is in charge and should have directed Wollangk all along. If Esslinger thinks people are confused about who's in charge now, wait and see how confused they become if we get a fulltime elected mayor. That person will not answer to the council at all. He or she will answer to the public who elected them. Same with the council. People will expect the mayor to do something but the mayor wouldn't vote so they're still at the mercy of the council. And if it was set up that they did vote they did they'd only be one vote. We'd still have the same problems, but worse. Start with district representation and see how that goes. Or leave it as it is.
Besides, if Wollangk and these department heads we keep hearing about are the fault of our problems, how will changing the form of government change that? All a mayoral form of government does is give some wannabes another chance at something they couldn't get before. Change the people and set new hirees on the course you want them on and we should be fine. Isn't that what the wannabes' logic is really suggesting anyway?
This is the best, most active, council we've had in years. King and B. Tower represent the status quo and favor the wealthy elite. Esslinger and McHugh are for the working person. Palmeri and Bain are excellent debaters and along with Mayor Tower have a history of swing votes, not aligned with either the elite or working-class crew. This is a council that will take Oshkosh forward and clean out the "Good ol Boys Network" Fair and balanced. Just the perfect mix!
Dennis McHugh really rose to the occasion at the past council meeting:
“Now when they say ‘let the people do the dirty work’, well then I hope the Manskes will want the school board then, or the citizens, to gather enough signatures to put their proposed referendums on the ballot too. Why pick on city council? Lets get all the people to do the ‘dirty work’. Well, it almost sounded like I heard the word “Proletariat” in one of their comments, because I have a lot of respect for the citizens of Oshkosh. We have a lower income than other people in the Valley and maybe we are looked down upon a little bit, I love these people. I think they want a change, they have communicated to me by the hundreds the last 3 or 4 months. They have a right to have this put on the ballot. It’s just a smoke screen to claim that nobody wants it, that we’re doing fine. I challenge anybody to prove that.”
I don’t often agree with Dennis McHugh, but I mostly agreed with him Tuesday night. I also believe that many Oshkosh citizens want a change, that they are tired of hearing story after story about poor development schemes, poor decision making, and poor management of taxpayer money.
Regarding our past city executives...
Does anyone know how Mr Wollangk and Mr Kraft could "work out a serverance agreement"? I just assumed that all the terms for a true "retirement" from the city would be outlined in contract. Granted, Mr Kraft probably isn't part of a union for his position as attorney, but I am sure that all professional staff should have a contract the way paraprofessionals do, even though everything is currently at arbitration.
Speaking of the city being shady...
When the library laid off 4 employees in January, they weren't able to work out any sort of "severence agreeement". Many of those staff members had 300+ hours of sick leave I am sure they would have loved to seen paid out at 50%, especially since they were losing their job and could use the money too. Instead, they were told that even though there was no contract to base the layoff on (it expired Dec 31 2006), and there was no language in the expired contract about severance packages for layoffs, that all terms regarding the layoff were based on the previous contract.
I guess if you make more than $100,000 per year, you fall under special circumstances and can "work out" things better. I won't even add any lawyer jokes at this point....I think we are seeing enough already!
Sour grapes are running rampant over on the Kent Monte blog. In addition to being totally clueless, a "couple" posters waste no time is sharing their dislike for River Mill residents, for city workers, for Burk Tower and Jess King, and for Eye on Oshkosh. Yet they warble the praises of Paul Esslinger and Dennis McHugh and act like they're the saviors for the taxpayers.
If they're such heros how do they explain Kent Monte - who is of the same mindset as his 2 "friends" - getting beat so badly the last time he ran he couldn't even make it out of the primary? Less than 900 people voted for him. And how do they explain Esslinger's vote totals sliding every time he's run lately. How do they explain people making fun of McHugh for looking like such a buffoon up there? People are sick of their negativity and nastiness. The next election will show these hometown "heros" have clay feet and people don't want such defects in their elected officials.
I have to agree with 2:33's comments about Dennis McHugh. One person said they thought Mchugh was so wonderful at last week's council meeting. They must have missed the whole part where McHugh wouldn't support Palmeri's amendment to reduce the referendum choices to 2, but much later did an about-face and announed he'd like there to only be 2 options on the ballot instead of 4. Then to save face he told Palmeri, he must not have liked Palmeri's choices. Wow! He really needs to pay closer attention and get a clue what's going on or he'll never see another term.
Whine about Paul and Dennis all you want. They are in the power position and all you can do is post to blogs! They're part of a good city hall house cleaning and you don't like it. Too bad. Write to Burk or Jess and Whine to them.
When is the sidewalk project expected to be finished?
Fall is a great time for planting. Some should be able to get new landscaping in yet before winter. Those sidewalks will make a nice neighborhood even better!
Yeah, a good city housecleaning but those who left took us to the cleaners. Great work council chumps. Paul and Dennis are part of a minority council so they're really NOT in a position of power. At the end of the day, they work for ALL the people not just their supporters or the so-called average working class guy. They better get a clue or they'll be seated at the other side of the council chambers next term.
9:51 BlaBlaBlaWhineWhineWhine
Paul, Dennis and the rest of the council are doing an outstanding job.
Frank is especially to be commended for doing a wonderful job. He was the swing vote that allowed sidewalks to be installed on River Mill. If Frank would have voted No, the sidewalks wouldn't be going in.
This statement by Dennis is appropriate-
“Now when they say ‘let the people do the dirty work’, well then I hope the Manskes will want the school board then, or the citizens, to gather enough signatures to put their proposed referendums on the ballot too. Why pick on city council? Lets get all the people to do the ‘dirty work’. Well, it almost sounded like I heard the word “Proletariat” in one of their comments, because I have a lot of respect for the citizens of Oshkosh. We have a lower income than other people in the Valley and maybe we are looked down upon a little bit, I love these people. I think they want a change, they have communicated to me by the hundreds the last 3 or 4 months. They have a right to have this put on the ballot. It’s just a smoke screen to claim that nobody wants it, that we’re doing fine. I challenge anybody to prove that.”
Sounds like 6:53 AM just can't handle the truth about his "heros." Hey, when you can't intelligently debate the issues or if you're on the losing end of an argument, nothing like showing your ignorance, petulence and making a few nasty remarks to try getting one up on your opponents. For extra measure, throw in a few copy and paste remarks from another blog. Yeah, that's it. You'll look intelligent now. NOT!!
Miles...You want the Truth...
YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH.
LOL- A great line from a great movie!
Enjoy your sidewalk!
Wow, 10:28. Not even original enough to come up with anythign on your own??? You must be the copy and paste guy. He likes to steal material too.
Miles, why don't you sign your name to your comments anymore?
You reply before the original posting is even posted, so it must be you? What are you afraid of Miles?
Great Posting!!!
Anonymous said...
I took a little jaunt down River Mill today. The sidewalks look BEAUTIFUL. I sure hope the snobs don't mind the big, dirty trucks that are on the road. How dare those big, dirty peasants leave their greasy, dirty equipment behind?! When Paris gets home she's going to be upset! The road was very wet. I didn't know if it was from the rain or from the crying going on over there.
I heard that the vehicle of choice for River Mill is a SnAAB. Is that true River Mill gang???
For shame, the elite having to have sidewalks like the commoners. What is this world coming to?? The next thing you know the elite will have to put their pants on the same way as commoners!
Oct 14, 2007 3:27:00 PM
So true!
Enjoy the new concrete!
You're such an idiot, 11:40. You think you're smart enough to have everything figured out, including times stamps on blogs. It's just part of your dillusional thinking. When you realize you don't know everything in this world, that's when you start to become wise, grasshopper. Since you're not smart enough to figure that out, we'll just have to deal with your idiocy every time your undies creep up your crack.
1:07 chill dude. You’re bound to pop a vein if you keep stressing. Go for a walk on that new sidewalk and cleanse your mind. Peace.
:)
The lunacy from councilors about the sidewalks and the hypocrisy over safety issues is vein popping, head popping and mind blowing. But what else can you expect from a politician but hypocrisy and contradiction?
The ONW has an interesting article about the parking lot behind some Main Street businesses. One of the concepts being considered would remove sidewalk on one side of Jefferson in the parking lot area.
Imagine that! Even considering the removal of sidewalk when we just heard some councilors preach a few months earlier about how every part of town needs and will have sidewalks for reasons of safety.
Incidentally, where are the proposals from hypocrite Paul Esslinger for sidewalk installation in these other reas of town where there's busy traffic and many pedestrians? I'm talking in front of stores, in front of a city park and across from the Chamber building and City Center on Jackson. How many years does Schwab Realty get to skate on not having sidewalk abutting their property? How 'bout it Safety Patrol Paul? Your true colors are showing.
Well I don't think that’s going to happen, but if it does, and Jefferson loses sidewalks on one side, if those people want to exercise, they can always go to River Mill and stroll the new walks. See how lucky you guys are!
Stew R. said:
Let’s remember that Richard Wollangk was not a complete failure as city manager. I think a good many council members felt he was “good enough” but it became obvious that he was ill served by some department heads and more than anything else paid the price for that.
I agree, now lets clean the rest of the weak links and dead wood out of city hall or wherever they have their offices.
I see 12:12 has no logical response to the "one neighborhood must have sidewalks, but another can afford to lose them" theory. Whether the council would approve such a thing or not is not even the issue at this point. It's the stupidity and hypocrisy with which people like those who support Esslinger's initiative try to make their case. Pretty sorry, but then again so was the whole "gotta have sidewalks in River Mill for safety reasons" argument on the part of Esslinger and Palmeri.
You can thank Frank Tower for being the swing vote that allowed you to have those amazing new sidewalks. Isn't Frank an excellent Mayor! I think he's just outstanding.
Ah but you've conveniently "forgotten" it was Hypocritical Pandering Paul Esslinger who brought it forward. Without that there would have been nothing to vote on. If he was at all sincere, he'd be equally concerned about sidewalks elsewhere and do something about it. But he's not and his inaction since the River Mill vote proves it. Isn't that Esslinger a jerk with a vengeance (and a joke)? Yes he certainly is, but people are on to him. And he thinks he could be mayor??? That's an even bigger joke than he is.
Ah but you've conveniently "forgotten" it was Frank Tower who cast the deciding vote. Without that there would have been no concrete sidewalks at River Mill.
I know that galls you as Frank was your "Chosen One" but it only goes to show that this council is a capable group; and Frank is an OUTSTANDING Mayor!
Anon. 10:11 said "I know that galls you as Frank was your "Chosen One"
Ah -- Frank was NEVER my "Chosen One" he was simply the "lesser of two evils and still is, when your only choice is Frank Tower or Esslinger, well the choice was easy but not the least bit satisfying.
Like they say..."It takes four votes"
And all it takes is one corrupt councilman to bring something forward. That was Paul E. But while you're speaking about what it takes to get something passed, remember that at the polls all it takes is a simple majority vote for another candidate to get rid of someone. Say bye bye Pandering Paul. Your days are numbered. Less than 6 months of his hypocrisy and arrogance to go.
12:14, it also takes only one worm to make an apple go bad and one bad apple to spoil the whole bunch. On our council we've got 2 and a half bad apples (Esslinger, McHugh, and sometimes Palmeri), and they're ruining the whole orchard.
Enjoy those sidewalks and invite Frank over for a stroll as he is the one that put the vote over-the-top and allowed those wonderful concrete slabs to be installed in your front yard. It would never have been possible without Franks honest and caring vote. I think he is a wonderful Mayor.
Birds of a feather flock together and when it comes to hypocrisy and doubles standards, no one flocks together better than Esslinger and his mouthpiece Kent Monte. The latest example is Monte telling the tale of Warren Kraft's heart surgery. Monte has used every chance he could to bash Kraft on his blog. Now in a sickening display of what we're supposed to believe is concern he and Michelle have posted "well wishes" to the Kraft family on Kent's blog. Puhleaze!!!!!! That's so like a Monte, isn't it? Bash someone repeatedly but appear compassionate and concerned when you can get mileage out of it, only to wonder why someone doesn't like you. Oh yeah and make sure you do it publicly so everyone can read it and say "Isn't that nice. See, those Montes aren't so bad." Kind of reminds me of the person who always needs public recognition of the "good" things they do. Excuse me while I make my way to the nearest toilet.
Haven't seen Esslinger and his kids in the neighborhood yet. Maybe they'll come for trick or treating. Or maybe Paul's been too busy with the Montes getting a get well card together for Mr. Kraft.
Will the new sidewalks be done for trick or treating? I wonder what the people on River Mill give to the little gobblins?
Beavis,
Your back! Are both you and Cut & Paste Guy tired of trashing public employees and you want to beat another dead horse again?
Why don't you come to the Mill sidewalks dressed as a Pitiful Loser for trick or treat? That way you won't have to buy a costume.
So are those sidewalks finished? I can't wait to take a stroll!
There will be no more foot traffic in this neighborhood than there was before. Esslinger's idea was politically motivated and he prompted Mr. Ehlke to mention the River Mill sidewalks when he came before the city council. The man knew nothing about them and could have cared less before he talked to Esslinger and was asked to mention it. Still think it wasn't politically motivated? If so you're living in a dream world.
If River Mill needed sidewalks, then fine, but it's the whole timing of the issue that smells fishy, and therefore political.
How does the city plan sidewalks? In the CIP, which is settled every year after the operating budget is settled. The sidewalks are then planned for the upcoming year.
Why, then, was River Mill so pressing that it needed to be done immediately? It wasn't. It was a political game by someone, I am guessing Esslinger, to show someone, like Miles or Dell'Antonio, a lesson.
Why couldn't it wait till next year after the CIP? Someone had a bug up his butt...
1:30 PM is so right. Crybaby Paul's had a bug up his butt for a long time over the River Mill situation and it has to do with Jon D. When he was conntacted by Mr. Ehlke, he smelled a golden opportunity to make someone else the heavy by "inquiring" about the infamous sidewalks. Too bad Ehlke didn't know he was being used in Esslinger's game. But everything comes full circle and Esslinger will get his comeuppance too. It's happened before. It'll happen again. Pigheaded Paul still hasn't learned how to pick his battles. You never win the war that way.
Looks like King is trying to kill the Otter Street Fishing Club DONATED Kids fishing dock.
Wonder if that's politically motivated?
aaaaa YA!
First off 7:39 PM, this thread isn't about a fishing dock. But since you've made it that, please explain to us how, if this is such a good thing and so few people other than neighbors are upset about it, it would be politically advantageous for her to bring it back??? Just goes to show you don't have a clue what you're talking about and only want to snivel because it's not something that you're affected by or care about. If Esslinger was bringing it back, you'd be all for it.
But even if your conspiracy theories were right and she was doing it for political reasons, it is called politics. And of course, we've never seen Esslinger do anything for political reasons now, have we? Of course not, not even when he got an innocent citizen to do his dirty work for him because he's given such little respect by city hall. Give those people at city hall a raise for having some intelligence and common sense. They recognize a hypocrite and a jerk when they see one.
from the WOSH news guys blog-
The Oshkosh Common Council will take another vote on whether to approve the installation of a fishing pier in Miller's Bay. If you've been paying attention, this vote comes two years after the council gave initial approval to the donation from the Otter Street
Fishing Club. Councillor Jessica King is asking that the issue come back--feeling the council made a mistake in how it handled the vote.
If we are going backwards to overturn Council decisions from the past--can I suggest a few others to correct? How about we go back to 2002 and change the deal with the developers of the 100-block project to make them "pay as they go" with TIF district money for the project? And I don't think everyone had their fair say on the yard waste permit requirement.
And since we are scrutinizing donations to the city, let's re-examine the municipal cost for the Pollack Water Park--which hasn't broken even yet--and the Leach Amphitheater--which is a losing proposition for promoter PMI and hasn't been used for nearly the number of items supporters said it would.
The fishing club has won a court battle and DNR approval for their project--and at each of those steps opponents of the project had more than their fair say. How many times can the same issues come back to the Council or the courts before victory (or concession) is declared?
If the fishing pier becomes the nuisance opponents believe it will, it can easily be removed and the park goes back to what it was before. If it becomes a big success, then it's another community asset and everybody wins. But the club has won the right to put it in and someone has to step in and put an end to the fight.
Posted by Jonathan Krause
When will these handful of neighbors who think the park is their private property finally stop? Enough already! This dock will benefit many people and any impact to 'your' view will be very small. I hope the majority of the city council will not vote to reopen this issue for the umpteenth time.
This is a good example of why Councilor King favors the current system. A hand full of Doctors and Dentists and Lawyers can stall a project which benefits everyone in the city.
If we had a Mayor and a representative Council, this kind of catering to the wealthy would and could not happen.
Odd that she says shes a Democrat yet leans to the right and caters to the rich. Maybe she needs financial support for her upcoming campaign?
In case you missed the event in the Mayor of Oshkosh signed the US Mayors Climate Protection Agreement, you may watch it on streaming video. First, you need to have iTunes installed on your computer, then go to the following link, and follow the "Browse iTunes at UW Oshkosh" link. Open the "Earth Charter" folder, then the "Earth Charter Summit 2007" folder, and view or listen to the event titled "Creating Sustainable Communities":
iTunesU at UW Oshkosh
http://www.uwosh.edu/itunes
Alternatively, here is the direct link to the folder:
"Earth Charter Summit 2007"
http://deimos.apple.com/WebObjects/Core.woa/Browse/uwosh.edu.1419168964.01419168969
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