The safety issue
This is where the whole safety/walking-trail/smart-growth argument breaks down. This is Marine Drive where it intersects with Westwind Road. It's where the WIOUWASH Trail will take you if you start off at, say, River Mill Road.
Notice the jogger. Notice the vehicles. Notice the lack of sidewalks.
Here is the sign that tells you where to go to pick up the trail if you are heading along Westwind back toward the city.
Yes, that is a truck terminal on Marine Drive. No, there are no sidewalks. (And, yes, parts of the trail here are outside the city limits, but according to the city's election map all of the areas pictured here are inside the city.)
If the idea is that low-traffic, low-density River Mill Road needs sidewalks to ensure the safety of people using a walking trail, then why aren't we in a rush to have sidewalks where trail users have to pass through an industrial area?
Some serious bikers prefer to use Algoma Boulevard, as opposed to the trail, because the surface is better and there is less congestion. It gets dicey in places, up close to 41, and sidewalks would be welcome there.
So as much as I would like to believe that the River Mill sidewalk issue is all about safety and walking trails and smart growth, the evidence is problematic.
Let's address those things (safety and walking trails and smart growth), but let's do it in a systematic and thoughtful way.
posted by Miles Maguire at 9:47 PM
37 Comments:
Thanks River Mill Miles!
I agree, those areas should have sidewalks as well.
Please contact your County Board member and ask that they consider placing walks in the WIOUWASH trail areas outside the City Limits.
As for Oshkosh, we're taking the lead on the Safety Issue. We can only hope our counterparts in County Government might do the same.
All of the areas pictured are within the city, within the purview of the Oshkosh Common Council.
Forward those on to Dick W. maybe next year after River Mill is done they can get at those.
We should be focusing on safety first. Instead Esslinger focuses on personal politics. Sorry behavior for someone who represents everyone.
3:21
So you're another one of those that believe in the conspiracy theory
If you really do believe that is possible, you have to assume then the reason River Mill did not get sidewalks installed when Arboratium Drive had theirs installed was due to a "DelAntonio conspiracy theory" blocking them so they couldn't be installed.
I really don't believe in either one, but for those of you who do....I hear Roswell is looking at installing sidewalks there too...Humm?!
There is no DelAntonio conspiracy because there is no DelAntonio.
Even if Jon Dell'Antonia was able to block sidewalks before that makes it even more plausible that Esslinger is getting even now instead of letting the public works people install these sidewalks according to the schedule. Esslinger's a liar to tell us it's in the interest of safety. If that were true he'd be ordering walks in all over town.
7:18
Need a ticket to Rosewell?
7:21 said: "Esslinger's a liar"
Seems like this is less and less about sidewalks and more about some people whining about a good councilman...Paul Esslinger.
The vote was 5/2.
Paul and four others said - Lets put sidewalks in the River Mill area - keep it safe for people who use the WIOUWASH trail.
I agree with those five!
When he places personal vendettas above public safety, it's called being "good for nothing."
10:16, As a Concerned Citizen, your thinking is being clouded by your hate and rage for Paul Esslinger.
The vote was 5/2.
Paul, Dennis, Bryan, Frank, Tony all are on the winning side of this issue. They are clear thinkers and support the City Manager and Public Works Department in the notion that now is the correct time to place sidewalks in the River Mill area.
I am a concerned citizen and as such am more concerned about the safety of other citizens than I am Paul Esslinger. But even with your diminished level of common sense you should know that the safety of a few has to be balanced with the safety of many and projects done accordingly. I think some council members understand that and there may be more before this is a done deal. Happy trails.
Funny, but not surprising in this case, how fair criticism of decisions made by those in office is perceived by the thin-skinned ones and their supporters as hatred and bashing.
We've often heard that people can whine and moan as much as they want, but it takes four votes to make anything happen in this City.
So far, we've got five votes to put sidewalks in River Mill. We also have the support and recommendation from the City Manager and City Public Works Director that now would be a good time to place sidewalks in River Mill.
I find if hard to imagine why the folks in River Mill are putting up this much fuss over getting sidewalks they say they want...just not right now.
Sounds like a classic "Not in my front yard" issue to me.
Don't count your chickens before they're hatched.
There is no doubt the the River Mill area is wealthy...and money talks.
I believe Tony, Paul and Dennis will remain committed to their votes.
Here's the rub...
Bryan and Frank will face a distinct choice. The choice they face will either mark them as "Stand-up Guys" willing to do whats right, even at the risk of facing the rath of the city movers and shakers who live in River Mill...or they could be seen as just two more flip-floppers who just might be in the pocket of who ever has the most money.
Time will tell as we see how this shakes out.
My guess is that Bain will buckle under the pressure, or he'll be a little richer because of changing his vote.
MY GUESS IS YOUR WRONG!
I think Bain is a stand up guy and if he made his vote known the first time he's gonna stand by it. I don't think hes wishywashy and influenced by anybody over there in that area whos got the big bucks.
You can be a standup guy and see tht perhaps the first vote wasn't necessarily the smartest at this time; or that things were done a little hastily. And bigbucks have nothing to do with it, because a few dollars here and there toward someone's campaign are hardly "bick bucks."
The council should vote to do the sidewalks but in the timeframe they were supposed to be done, not moved up because of Paul Esslinger's ill-conceived resolution.
Those who vote for that approach will be the real standup guys and gal.
8:47
Hey Concerned Citizen. I see you moved over here, but are still up to your ol' "Paul Bashing" ways.
You're really a funny guy Concerned Citizen, no matter what Paul would do, you'd find a way to bash him.
You really don't give a hoot about the sidewalks, you're just all about kicking Paul in the chops.
Ill conceived ideas are deserving of criticism, no matter if they were Paul Esslinger's or another councilor's. It says much that his supporters won't see that.
12:31.
You're right, for most of the imbeciles on this site (including Miles) it is all about the Paul bashing. And now that Tony Palmeri is on the scene and doing something to help, he'll be the next on the list to be bashed like Paul and Dennis.
Now that we have the makings of a real council, I'm hoping Paul will come up with MORE resolutions that will piss off the wealthy and privileged.
For those who know Paul personally, PLEASE tell him to run for council again!
Have you seen Paul's house? He is one of the wealthy you speak of!
Paul's wealthy? Hmmm. I didn't know you could classify unemployed people as wealthy.
If the city is worried about safety why have they made no effort to install sidewalk along ALL frontage roads in town?
Take a look over by Wal-Mart; take a look up and down from Oshkosh Avenue over to Ninth Steet; take a look at the west of 41 frontage road south of Ninth and all the way down.
These areas continue to grow with businesses and people can be seen at times walking either on lawns or in the road. Very dangerous. But Paul Esslinger would rather worry about River Mill Road. What a messed up thought process he has.
1:38...Concerned Citizen, more Esslinger bashing?
Boring!
3:26,
What's boring is someone who thinks they know who's writing when the truth of the matter is they haven't got the slightest clue. More fodder for those of us who know better. Keep on guessing and you might win the prize. Or maybe your rich friend Paul Esslinger can buy you a prize. Right now you only get a booby prize.
Michelle Monte appeared at tonight's city council meeting in support of River Mill sidewalks. In her comments she told the story of her baby brother who was killed a few dozen years ago and urged the council to approve sidewalks for safety sake.
Though anyone could feel for her loss it is too bad that her concern for safety was focused more on a street with limited traffic instead of much higher volume, faster streets. Makes one wonder just how much of her argument really was safety based and how much was politicking.
Mybe the last sick individual should watch the replay. Mrs. Monte specifically asked for all safety measures everywhere in the city, particularly near recreational areas.
What is wrong with you?
11:18 calls an earlier commenter "sick." Yes, Mrs. Monte wants sidewalks everywhere. Then why was she not ever before the council with her baby brother's picture before this pleading for sidewalks all over town? That makes her cries for sidewalks less genuine.
This is from another blog which seems to sum things up pretty well.
"Mrs. Monte is keenly aware of the financial parameters we must live within. She preaches it constantly. If safety was such a pressing issue for her, why would she not have asked that sidewalks be done in higher traffic areas instead of River Mills?
Incidentally, she did mention that her family uses recreational trails. Maybe her own selfishness had something to do with her plea for sidewalks in River Mill instead of where they can protect the most people in the most dangerous situations."
Now THAT spells out some logic on the part of Mrs. Monte that seems sick and her concerns misappropriated.
Every once-in-awhile the good guys win.
Last night, the good guys won!
Thanks Tony, Dennis, Paul and maybe most of all Frank!
We'll see how good their decision was if someone, like the guy in the wheelchair, gets hit trying to cross some of the busier streets in town without sidewalks. Sidewalks should have been voted for in order of priority based on traffic count, street speeds, etc., not the flimsy reasons given for their immediate installation.
12:32-
"Sidewalks should have been voted for in order of priority based on traffic count, street speeds, etc., not the flimsy reasons given for their immediate installation."
This criteria has never ever been used, in any case. Even in humble areas like Van Buren etc.
The good guys did win.
The wannabe "gated community" is now eating a healthy dose of sour grapes. They can eat more when they gather for cocktails...or er a...coffee, ya thats right, morning coffee.
11:38 you are sick! The reason Mrs. Monte hasn't come forward talking about sidewalks anywhere else is because the council didn't give the impression that they would fold like a cheap suit under the pressure.
Mrs. Monte wanted to get her point across to not cave in. GET IT??
Mrs. Monte also said we should have sidewalks in ALL areas of Oshkosh. My God, do you really bash someone who has lost a loved one because of this issue?
You're most likely one of the snobs that live on River Mill eating a bowl of sour grapes. Well, I say make some whine with your sour grapes.
By the way I posted on here earlier that Bain would fold.
I WAS RIGHT!! Way to go Bain, you're spineless!!
While I appreciate those defending what I did last night, I will address comments insinuating the only reason I spoke of my brother was politicking.
To clarify, I was not speaking in support of putting sidewalks in River Mills. I was speaking in support of the entire sidewalk plan. River Mills was just a part of that. I am thrilled with the vote and would have been equally satisfied with a one to two year committment that was proposed in the amendment that failed.
I did not ever think sidewalks or any safety measure would be something the city council would even have a doubt in their minds about and thus saw no need to be concerned. That is until I saw some things being posted here and on Oshkonversation and elsewhere. I cannot believe neighborhoods would take a "not me" attitude about something so basic and essential in a city with vehicular traffic. This is particularly disconcerting when you consider the number of people living with various disabilities from needing wheelchairs to Autism.
I am pretty sure everyone knows my daughter is Autistic. One of her symptoms is no impulse control. Try to catch a ten year old that runs after something that has caught her eye. I do not want to have nothing more than a picture and a clipping of my daughter. I do not want anyone to have to live with that.
Safety is not new for me in this city. Last fall, I stood outside in the cold and rain on 20th avenue for a week with a sign asking traffic to slow down. I stood out there for another week with a radar gun.
I am not without blame. Driving through a part of Oshkosh I hadn't after moving here, I got a speeding ticket in a school zone. I did not see any children but the officer said there was one. I did not know there was even a school as all that can be seen from the road is a parking lot and I was focused on where I needed to turn.
Everyone needs a reminder to be safe and every measure possible should be taken by the city to ensure safety.
Another clarification, I said my family uses recreational "areas" in the city. At this time, we have not taken the opportunity to use the trail for various personal reasons. My plea is for the city council to always act on the side of safety particularly where recreational areas and children are present. High traffic does not guarantee an accident just like low traffic does not guarantee safety. My brother was killed in a very low traffic area. I currently live in a low traffic area, however, that traffic is not always mindful of speed and children.
ALL areas of the city need sidewalks. Anyone who is given such a gift should not be arguing against it and pointing the finger elsewhere. If anything, those Not currently scheduled to get sidewalks should be begging for their neighborhoods.
It is a shame that some consider what I said as selfish. You couldn't be farther from the truth. You have my sympathy.
Here's a response to those who continue to claim councilman Paul Esslinger was only doing his job when it came to the River Mill sidewalk matter...
The issue they choose to ignore is it WAS and IS an abuse of power.
There is no love lost between councilman Esslinger and former councilman/mayor Jon Dell'Antonia who happens to live in this neighborhood. It's common knowledge that the fact there were no sidewalks there has been a sore spot for Esslinger for years. When he reaized he had enough votes on the council to get it passed (or at least a good chance to do so) he brought forward a resolution ordering in sidewalks in a single neighborhood and then had the audacity to say it was in the name of safety.
If his safety argument is to be believed then one would have to belive that there were no other streets in Oshkosh that needed sidewalks, particularly where people do, in fact, walk. We all know that is not the case. If it were a matter of eliminating disparity, as you call it, he would also have done his homework and brought forward a resolution to order in sidewalks on all other streets where sections of sidewalk or walks in their entirety are missing. We all know that didn't happen either.
Mr. Maguire has published numerous photos of places in Oshkosh where sidewalks are missing, where pedestrians walk and where vehicular traffic is greater than River Mill Road. And here's one more: how many years will the city or Schwab Properties allow the section of sidewalk to be out on Jackson Street just before the bridge heading south? People walk there too and when they get to that section either have to walk on Jackson Street (not a smart thing at all) or in the grass, which has ruts in it and someone could easily fall and break an ankle or worse. Additionally it looks stupid and shabby to have the Sidewalk Closed signs sitting there as they have been for years. And with all the recent focus on that area (Five Rivers, Akcess, the Marathon building purchase, the chamber building purchase discussion) you can't tell me Esslinger (or one of the other councilors) has not seen the signs, seen the problem, seen the traffic, and said "We really ought to do something about this."
Let's get moving on this Esslinger!! Since you're so hot for taking care of things that have languished for years, how about bringing forward another resolution to order in sidewalks there, Mr. Safety and Fixer of Inequities??
If the River Mill sidewalk issue was really about safety or repairing inequities Esslinger needed to do a better job of things. He failed...and miserably. People who know the truth and have all the facts about this situation totally believe Esslinger is full of it and (ab)used his power to get these sidewalks installed. They also believe there would have been nowhere near the uproar about them if he had been more fair and equitable in his approach. He wasn't and it's one more strike against him with many who used to support him.
Post a Comment
<< Home